Dialogue: What does your religion say?

Mar 22nd, 2009 by vjkrishna in Society, Wisdom

I stopped the car as we approached another signal. My friend was sitting next to me in the car. Traffic signals generally open a new topic. Don’t know why. When the car comes to a halt after flowing freely, I guess it happens to our thoughts as well. The system restart does happen. We forgot what we were talking until then. As the car stopped for the signal, my friend suddenly looked at me and asked . . .

Friend: So what’s your Zen saying?
Me: What?

Friend: Zen. You follow Zen, right?
Me: Yeah, I think I do, as much as possible.

Friend: But what does that say?
Me: What do you mean what does that say?

Friend: A religion must say something right?
Me: Okay I get it. For starters, Zen is not a religion.

Friend: What is it then?
Me: It is a way of life. A philosophy. But tell me something.
Friend: What?

Me: You’re a hindu right?
Friend: Yeah, you know that. I’m a religious person.

Me: What does Hinduism say?
Friend: What do you mean what does it say?

Me: As in, a religion must say something right?
Friend: Well, I’m sure it does say something but . . .

Me: You don’t know?
Friend: Hinduism is a great religion and the oldest too. There are these vedas, epics and puranas.

Me: That’s all right but I was just trying to know how much you know what your religion says.
Friend: I may not know enough but it’s a great religion.

Me: How did you end up following Hinduism?
Friend: What kind of question is this? I’m a born Hindu. Mine is a Hindu family.

Me: So you’ve inherited your religion. You haven’t chosen your religion as such.
Friend: I think that’s very normal.

Me: To inherit is normal. To continue with that or know more about that is your own choice.
Friend: Whether I know or not, I do follow. That’s called faith.

Me: How come you say that you follow a religion and you don’t know what it says.
Friend: What’s the big deal?

Me: Religion is all about beliefs right? You don’t know what it says but you have the belief. You believe something that you don’t know?
Friend: Hey hey, hold on. We do a lot of things that we may not fully understand.

Me: Is that a comforting thing? I’d say it’s even worse to say that there many such things.
Friend: But that’s the way it is.

Me: Do you know what’s the difference among Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism and Jainism?
Friend: No, I don’t. Why do I have to know about all those religions. I’m a Hindu and I’m fine with that.

Me: What’s not fine is that you don’t know what Hinduism says. It’s ok if you don’t know about the religions that you don’t follow. But Hinduism?
Friend: As I said, it’s not natural for us. Honestly we don’t want to spent too much time on that.

Me: Don’t you think religions have become like political parties. You know that they’re supposed to have different ideologies. You know they are different. You don’t what exactly their policies are. In reality, all that you see is they behave differently. But you still vote.
Friend: There’s a reason why we are where we are . . (smiles)

Me: Today, religion is all in practice and behaviour and hardly anyone cares about the theory.
Friend: Okay. Now what are you trying to achieve?
Me: We’ve got the signal. Let’s go. You think we’ll be late?

19 Comments

  • It is a sad fact that quite a few people follow religions that they are born into and not out of a choice they are given. While some dare to experiment and learn more about it, others just pass it off as a part of life that has to be followed blindly.

    Thankfully, I was given a choice in life to follow the religion that makes me feel connected to the other realm. Zen is a great way of life which can be followed by just about anyone.

    You are a deep thinker and I am glad that we met. I look forward to reading more from your blog.
    This world is much too beautiful to not ‘think’ and people like you always stay close to my heart!

    Stay in touch!

  • There’s one aspect of Zen philosophy that I follow without much effort – and that is ‘following the stream’.

  • What do I mean by “religion ” ?

    A set of myths (or) sacred truths held in reverence or believed by adherents .

    This is my humble understanding ;-) ) & I am still trying to know more about the essence of religion.
    How one sees religion is certainly different from another one.

    I try to be spiritual by following a set of principles, values & ideology.
    I don’t need a religion to be spiritual.

    I am a student of Mr. Daniel Goleman. I have read & researched on Religion & Sprituality.

    With this experience, I can say;

    a) The concept of religion is, rather than being a special category which can be criticized or praised as a group, is merely one type of ideology, alongside humanism, Marxism, nationalism and so forth.

    b) It is a fallacy caused by a desire to protect the transcendent ideals of world cultures.

    c) In short, “there is no coherent non-theological theoretical basis for the study of religion as a separate academic discipline.

    Opinion by
    Prithvi

  • @ Sheeba: You’re being a bit too generous with your words ;-) Thanks anyway! We’ll keep in touch.

    @ ilbrutto: Good one. The best piece of zen is ‘here and now’. Simple to understand and difficult to master. It can bring absolute joy to one’s life.

    @ Prithvi: How do you conclude then? You are religious or irreligious? Which religion do you follow?

  • As I said earlier, I don’t practice any religion in particular.

    I would prefer to say I am spiritual , rather describing myselves as irreligious . . .

  • Vijay…

    This Topic would have been more interesting if the post is filled with Religion, Spirituality, God, Divinity Realization & Mukthi…

    Well, our discussion should go beyond Religion & God. I believe ‘Religion’ is only a Start/Commencement to attain Mukthi. It exists just to cultivate us in verbal & behavioral actions. End of Religion is Start of Spirituality, End of Spirituality is Start of Realization, End of Realization within is Reaching/bonding with ‘Ultimate Divine Power’ – I understand it as “Mukthi”. Till you attain or realize that, one will be born, reborn again and again in various forms based on our karma’s in the present life.

    I believe who ever realized to reach that “Ultimate Divine Power” – Started their own paths/way called religion (Including our own God’s). Buddhism started from Hinduism after Budda (Who born in Hindu Family) influenced by Hindu religion (after his marriage) started realizing to union with ‘Divine Power’. Christianity started from Judaism after Jesus Christ who born in Jews family, influenced by Jews religion started his own way of union with ‘Diving Power’& since then many of their followers believed & influenced their paths/footsteps and preaching them as God or following their own way of realization. That’s why all the religious holy books says the same thing on how to cultivate us within for the Mukthi. There are many ways in preaching one can understand it better if we read books on ‘Karma Yoga’, ‘Bakthi Yoga,’ ‘Dhyana yoga’, ‘Gnana yoga’ & ‘Raja Yoga’. You can get all from these “Ramakrishna Ashram” to know more. We can proudly say that INDIA is the only country who has rich holy history and great Spiritual knowledge on all these.

    Its like every river (religion) & its origin is unique from others having their own passage/channel but all lead/objective/flow to reach one place – Ocean (Divinity/Mukthi). As well said by Lord Krishna in Bhagavath geetha, – 1000 ppl will preach me 100 will realize me and only 1 will reach me.

  • @ Mastikipaatshala – You said “This Topic would have been more interesting if the post is filled with Religion, Spirituality, God, Divinity Realization & Mukthi…”

    I tend to disagree. The topic is about how much we know about the religion we follow, do we follow religion blindly and do we choose our religion. I think that’s already too big a topic. What you’re suggesting is to exhaust all the discussions by each one talking from various points of view and completely lose focus. Let’s take one at a time :-)

    @ Prithvi – You can call yourself spiritual but being irreligious or otherwise denotes your stance on religion. The term ‘irreligious’ is seen in a negative connotation. Actually it also means indifference to religions, which is what you seem to say.

  • Vj,

    I think it is good to know what a religion says. May be we do know it already but tend to forget sayings that don’t impress us or we aren’t working to learn it by following it blindly. But knowing a religion might have have an impact either way, positive or negative. There is a possibility that someone might also tend to dislike his religion or stop following after he comes across certain teachings that is not of his flavour! I believe the essence is knowing to the extent you need it!

    As you know I don’t prefer reading books (I am working on it though) But I did learn from someone what religion says and I am now a person who believe in good morals of each & every religion. For instance I learnt Christianity only after watching the movie ” The Passion of Christ”. Lord Jesus Christ’s passion to stand against wrong doings for the sake of His people! That’s my understanding of Christianity! Wouldn’t like to learn anything more!

    I like the saying “Yella Pugazhum Iraivanukey” of Muslim. Submitting your success and failures to the feet of God. May be there are many more beautiful sayings in ‘Quran’ but this saying sums my belief of that religion.

    I got an opportunity of learning Zen from you during my testing times. So very gentle and simple thought process. Perfection isn’t found in everything going right rather in accepting what’s imperfect! I like it a lot! I follow Zen as well!

    What Hinduism tells me is, “Hope is still alive”, “It is within yourselves”. Is this from ‘Bhagavat Geeta’! I don’t know. But I feel better after I go to a temple during my testing times every now and then. Before examinations especially. Someone says I am there and you go ahead! Nothing will happen. I will take care. Well! who is that someone talking to me? That’s my belief on God from that religion.

    As you say it is always important to know what a religion says in papers! Someone might like to turn papers and explore only when they feel there is a need to turn! I think may be that’s what is being renamed as blind belief ;-)

  • Sorry again had it been long enough. I believe reading my view point mustn’t take as much time as I took to write it! Well I wasn’t writing though! Talking :-)

  • My mom says that Hinduism is a way of life, not just a religion. I’m not sure whether we are living in the Hinduism way. I don’t believe in religion, I just believe in God. I’m not religious either.

  • You have stirred the hornets’ nest !! Relegion is most used and abused topic as anyone and everyone has a view on it ! I should say relegion is world’s first prostitute !! Prithvi wouldn’t mind being relegious now !! I rest my case ! : )
    By the way you look great in the picture ! You have many options now for an alternate career !

  • Adwait sir,

    That was a ambitious circumstance & may be “yes” ;-) ) I would grab this oppurtunity with both my hands ;-)

    Nevertheles, on religion,

    Sir , how many of our common people think about their religion before they speak. Most of them follow becasue they ought to. Very few people take time, to think on religion.

    Probably, these stalwarts, would bring religion as an underlying security & trade it in “Badla ” market , build derivatives, interplay with options & finally covert it in terms of “Commodities”.
    Present a good business case to SEBI, then make it a legitimate product in exchange where all corporate gurus predict it’s angelic moments & statistiacla trends ;-) )

    As you rightly mentioned , anyone & everyone has a view, which is the easiest on earth. However to think, use intellect . . .I think not all use it!

    I would like to summarize this topic by mentioning that, Religion is currently used as a strategic tool to
    a) win elections
    b) gain voters confidence,
    c) Hide insecurity,
    d) hurt other people emotions & feelings
    e) Attain financial freedom etc, excetra & etc . . .

  • I think its a little like picking a football club to support! Its not about what the religion says. I’m generalising now and my apologies to those who excercise their freedom to choose. More often than not, you’re choice of religion is circumstantial – born into, family converts and other pure socio economic factors. What a religion says doesn’t really matter.

    You start supporting one club (sorry, religion :) ) for a reason and you just follow it through!

  • Hi Unicorn,

    I like your idea of comparing it with a football club! May be that’s how people take it rather. I believe that a truly religious person would know to respect and agree the differences between every religion. Foot ball clubs don’t, they just compete!

    Unfortunately I studied in a school that criticized my religion in an idea to preach it’s own religion. End result – negative! Certainly religious sayings do have differences that infact openly criticise each other. Those sayings never reached my soul. I am like a swan, taking milk alone! I could hear you smile! I cannot be a swan right :-) I mean I believe it is better to take what’s right by one own self consciousness.

    Unless and until the football clubs mind their own businesses they can never make champion players! Respect on a religious saying is dependent on who is saying it and what they are saying! Certainly religions say a lot!

  • Unicorn – Though it works for an argument, not sure if you can put football and religion in the same bracket. Or anything and religion in the same bracket. How much you think it should be chosen or otherwise depends on what you expect from religion. What do we expect from the religion that we follow? What is the purpose? That will help us put religion alongside a football club or a rock band :-)

  • Prithivi,

    God sake you aren’t a trader :-) Oof I haven’t seen such a complex strategy so far! May be that’s how they build religious thoughts! But tell me one thing, What we think, believe and follow, does it anyway depend on what others do! I mean the fact that someone else is misusing religions for their pockets does that mean you are irreligious? I think as a talented individual you do have your own opinions right? You certainly know what your religion says don’t you? Or let me put it the other way, You certainly believe in spiritual sayings right?

  • I like this topic ; so I just loving nailing my views here ;-)

    I posses immense faith in spirituality.
    Rather commenting on what my religion says, I would rather say, what are all my spiritual & secular views.

  • Quite interesting conversation and thought provoking. I believe i am a free thinker, although born as hindu , I have naturally developed the interest to adopt to different religious ideas which are good. I believe in forming my own religion and it neednot be hindiusm or budhism or zen, may be mixture of more than these things :) love towards another human being , every act of kindness, and highest/purest thoughts about onself and others is basis of my religion.

  • Sri – That’s an interesting point. I think that’s what a lot of us do. Arriving at a mixture of various beliefs and truths. Good point.